Waves Goes Subscription…Only?

52 Cues PodcastTAXIPlug-InsSounds & Effects
Written By Dave Kropf

With zero fanfare and not even a heads up email to their customer base, Waves has gone subscription… only. So we’re gonna talk about it, look at what’s being offered and at what price, and discuss about how Waves has, literally overnight, managed to piss off…everyone.

Plus in my Year of Taxi update, check in on any returns or forwards and take a listen to this week’s submission which is a pulsing, investigative cue, and then I’m going to give my thoughts a tension cue written by 52 Cues Community Member, Jenny Goodspeed (https://jennygoodspeed.com)!

00:00 - Intro & Welcome
02:15 - Year of Taxi Check-In
10:16 - Waves Goes Subscription... Only
30:55 - Join the 52 Cues Community!
32:09 - "Beneath the Surface," by Jenny Goodspeed
41:34 - Outro & How You Can Support 52 Cues!
43:17 - Family, Friends, and Patrons!

Lots of folks talking about Waves' Subscription Plan:

 @BarryJohns - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIYFEdZ9nHw

 @DanWorrall - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhHpza3Wi7c

 @clintmusic1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wi9SZ2l_n4

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Podcast Transcription

This transcription is guaranteed to have errors. But we post it in the hopes that it will be helpful!

Dave Kropf 0:00

Wow. I mean, just wow. I've talked before about their questionable marketing tactics, and I even said I would consider it but it's almost impressive the amount of self inflicted PR damage that's going on here. With zero fanfare, no press releases and not even a heads up email to their customer base that this was coming. Waves has gone subscription only. So we're going to talk about it, discuss the rollout, look at what's being offered and at what price and talk about how waves has literally overnight, managed to piss off everyone with their continued corporate hostility towards their customers. And yes, Warren, another waves rant is income.

Dave Kropf 0:58

What is happening everybody, this is Dave Kropf. And welcome back to another episode of the 52 cues podcast, a weekly podcast dedicated to all things production and library music, where we talked about industry topics and take deep dives into the different aspects of being a working production music composer. Plus in my year of taxi update, we're going to check in on any returns or forwards and take a listen to this week's submission, which is a return to pulsing tension. And then a little bit later on, I'm going to give my thoughts on a pulsing tension cue written by 52 cues community member Ginni Goodspeed, so you definitely want to stick around for that. If this is your first time here, welcome. I'm so glad you found me. You know, however you found me, I know you have a ton of options out there. Whether you're watching on YouTube or listening to the audio on the go, I just want to thank you for spending part of your day with me. I also want to give a special word of thanks to the family friends and patrons of 52 cues who helped keep the podcast the channel. Everything we do here gone are 100% community supported so you're not going to hear ads for mattresses or meal plans. But if you want to learn more about how you can help support 52 cues and also unlock extra perks like live streams and workshops, Zoom feedback sessions and a ton more, we'll be sure to click on the links in the description or stick around because we're going to be talking much more about that a little bit later in today's episode.

Dave Kropf 2:15

So let's jump into my year of taxi update where this week I have submitted a another pulsing investigative tension cue but first, I did get feedback on both baller envy and gotta get medieval and I am happy to report that both of those got a foreword both baller envy and gotta get medieval got a foreword. And so listening to let's dial a baller envy here first and shout out to screener for 19 Thank you for 19 baller envy says I like the haunting and ominous mood created by the top line melody pads and piano good trap hip hop beat. I like the development editing and layering goes on to say that it works well as is and was forwarded because nice option for drama, tension and suspense to pop. So that was a baller and V. Gotta get medieval. The notes for that was cool, cool Hip Hop trap cue I liked the flute melody, dark, ominous and suspenseful vibe for light drama and mystery. Nice smooth movement development and variation also works well as is. And I forwarded this song because nice production movement and variation for drama and light suspense. So I'm really really happy that I gotta get medieval and baller in the worst sent along to date.

Dave Kropf 3:55

So that I think that brings me up to eight, eight forwards. And still, still no have not gotten gotten a heads up or gotten reached out to buy a library. But that's fine. That's part part of the whole. That's part of the whole thing, right? So we had a couple of investigative tension cues, three investigative attention cues get forwarded in and hip hop. So speaking of investigative tension this week, again, I'm kind of staying in my wheelhouse and i i probably I mean, you know, you get some returns and those sting a little bit but I want to make sure that I'm not experimenting in, in taxi. And what I mean by that is, like, like to learn how to write cues. I don't think taxis necessarily the best way to learn how to do that because it's the analogy I've used before it's like trying to learn how to barbecue By entering barbecue competitions, you can learn to do that. You can learn how to smoke ribs, by bringing out your Weber kettle and going up next to folks who have been doing it for years who have, like all of the gear and everything, you can absolutely get an education that way, but it's not necessarily the best and you'll take your lumps.

Dave Kropf 5:24

So I, at least until maybe I get a reach out from a library, I'm sticking pretty close to my lane a little bit. And in so this week, I am returning to pulsing investigative tension instrumentals needed by a top notch Production Music Library with tons of placements. And the library is brand new. So that's cool. So they're new to the library. That means hopefully, if they reach out, that will be a new relationship that I can add, because I think I've submitted briefs to taxi listings for libraries that I'm already in. I think that's that's happened before I don't know for sure.

Dave Kropf 6:02

Looking for stylistic ballparks we have a Mac quail we have some game we have the Gone Girl game this is beyond human I think some bleeding fingers and another another new one. I'm a huge fan of bleeding fingers and their Spotify is stellar. I think they're some of the best in the business as far as album concepts and all of that, anyway, goes on to say please send them well compose instrumental cues that evoke a sustained, suspenseful, tension filled vibe and feel that is oozing with dark moody energy that could work well for a variety of investigative scenes and TV shows and film. The submission should have engaging motifs so that means melodic ideas pulsing rhythms and solid arrangements centered around a central motif with layers forward motion dynamics and interest. Your instrumentation can range from orchestral bass to electronic to hybrid and should fall in the wheelhouse of the references Whichever approach you choose to take please be sure that production is polished virtual sounds and samples are high quality state of the art and if you have tracks that could enhance complement and create an overall uneasy tone and mood send them in so they're looking for 90 seconds to three minutes with non non faded endings and I think I've mentioned this before I liked the fact that that taxi has started to add into their listings the cut down the cut down requirements the fact that that you will need to submit a 60 a 30 and a 15 and educating us on on those cut downs I think is helpful to to list in there. So the keys that I wrote this week it's called Big Girls Don't Cry and we'll refresh this and get this started over so big girls Don't cry?

Dave Kropf 9:38

So that was big girls don't cry, another pulsing investigative tension cue that I have sent off and I have one more. This actually closes today. And so I'm gonna go ahead and submit a second investigative tension cue because yeah, I really really enjoy them. And I thought it was really interesting that it In the feedback for my hip hop cues that that kind of tension, drama suspense, I don't know it just kind of finds its way into nearly nearly all of my cues regardless of style or genre. So that's it for my year of taxi update.

Dave Kropf 10:19

Oh waves, waves here we are yet again. Now, last year, I think it was August. But I talked at length about waves business practices, how it was kind of a subscription service already just kind of done in the shady just kind of way, where I likened it to Columbia House and BMG Music services or BMG BMI BMG? And how it was just icky. It was just kind of icky. So imagine my surprise, when on Monday, the member of the 52 cues community member I think it was Michael rescue Hey, Mike posted up in the in the in the boards there in the discussion forum that Waves has gone subscription only.

Dave Kropf 11:15

And I thought that was that's that's really weird. Because on Friday, I got this email. Standard waves business. In soon make your mixes hot plugins and bundles from 2999. Shop Now, buy one get the second one for 10% Buy. This is absolutely standard operating procedure for waves. I've gotten tons of these emails. This was this was on Friday Friday and I went back look through my emails. And on Sunday, I got this email on Sunday. So Friday, they're selling me plugins along with I think like the update plan. Why don't see the update plan. But yeah, they're selling me plugins on Friday. And then Sunday, introducing waves creative access create with total freedom.

Dave Kropf 12:36

"Dear waves customer. Since we started waves, our goal has been to give all music and audio creators full affordable access to the largest, most diverse set of top quality audio tools. Today we take the next step, whatever you're inspired to create, we want you to have everything you need instantly at your fingertips. Always. To make this a reality. Today we launched a full scale waves plugin subscription waves creative access, which is now the exclusive way to get waves plugins. All waves plugins always up to date with new releases as well as updates added at no extra cost. All available to you with a simple subscription."

Dave Kropf 13:19

The easiest, most affordable way to get waves plugins ever on the last podcast on that episode. Were you know, I went ham on waves? I said if they release a plugin, if they release a subscription, I will be on board. Or at least consider it even said $100 A year $200 A year? Yes.

Dave Kropf 13:46

But waves. Oh, what are you doing? To make this subscription only is a giant mistake. I mean, not to mention, is this email that was sent out on Friday? Is this email from a company that looks like they're about to dramatically dramatically change their business model. Does that email look like that? Does this look like the email of a company who's about to make you the customer change the way you interact with their product? fundamentally change because and here. Here's here's where waves just keeps punching themselves in the crotch. If you have waves plugins right now, and you don't subscribe, the clock is ticking On your plugins, the clock's ticking, they've already proved it.

Dave Kropf 15:04

Do you think a company that does this is going to keep supporting their software? I'm going to tell you no, because I have several waves plugins. And I went to go click on Get the waves update plan. And boop none of your products can be updated to the latest version. There are no register products. Extended waves update plan. Okay, let's click here. Now what happens as of March 26 2023, the waves update plan can no longer be extended for waves plugins which are now available as subscription only.

Dave Kropf 16:09

I'm still here, by the way, your podcast didn't break I am stewing in my incredulity. That's the right way to pronounce that word.

Dave Kropf 16:35

So not only will my progress plugins break, and they will break. But now I can't update them through the wonky, backwards Gestapo esque way that they had done it before. Which felt like extorting money from you. Alright, I'm using I'm using very charged language here. And I didn't know this upset about it, but I think I am.

Dave Kropf 17:13

Which means the handful of plugins that I did update there on the clock, vocal writer, which I use daily, I use Volker writer on this very podcast that you're listening. I use I use waves plugin for that. I think Vocal Rider is fantastic. Parenthetically, if you're watching and you know a good alternative to Vocal Rider, let me know because I'm jumping ship. Because you know what, I'm not gonna get a wave subscription. I know my last thumbnail said I'm done. But I'm really really done. This is so messed up. This is so messed up because now I can't ala carte update the plugins that I that I already have that I've already updated. And they're updated for a while. Right? So at least until August, which is when I installed my new Mac Studio.

Dave Kropf 18:28

So when logic updates, or when the OS updates, there's a nonzero chance that these plugins will break and my only recourse, my only recourse is to subscribe to waves or GTFO. And I am officially choosing the latter. Because I can't even anymore. I can't even abide these handful of plugins. And all of these other ones. Some of them work, some of them don't you know back in back back when I bought like the gold package that they that they okay, I'm not gonna need to re litigate the last the last podcast I did on this. But I mean Yep.

Dave Kropf 19:24

So if you have waves plugins right now, they're going to break. And I think subscriptions are fundamentally I think they're okay, they're not my favorite thing. And if I'm being honest, I finding myself kind of moving away from them. I find myself like I've already cancelled output by arcade. Or is it arcade by output? I honestly can't recall what the company name is. First. I think its output is the name of the company. But I've cancelled that I'm resisting using like reason, I have a reason subscription. It's an annual thing, and it just up up to November. But I find myself not reaching for it when I'm producing because I'm like, okay, you know, what do I want to really get into this because if I use it in the subscription runs out, and but at least I know, if I really, really want it, I can just go by, by reason, standalone, I think it's still offered to the standalone, same with East West. I get east west or an educator discount, and it's fantastic. And that really is, I mean, that's huge. The amount that they give you.

Dave Kropf 20:48

Will it ultimately be cheaper for me to just buy the handful of East West plugins, probably, but I think I'm still a few years out from that. But I'm finding myself resisting, putting plugins that I know are a subscription. Because I think what if in the future, I don't have that subscription, and it breaks. I've already seen that with some of these waves plugins. But again, that's I don't want to necessarily re litigate that whole concept of whether or not subscriptions are right or wrong. It's really about waves and how they're doing it and how I know that these plugins will break, and my only recourse is to subscribe.

Dave Kropf 21:33

Now let's talk about let's talk about what they're offering here. It's called Creative access. And they have the studio verse, which don't really want to get into it. It's supposedly it's AI. I think people are using the term AI that not really I mean, you keep using that word, but I don't think it means what you think it means. Anyways, we'll we'll maybe touch on that. But creative access the price, and this is where I think they this is where it was like an automatic that's going to be a no for me Dog is monthly, it's 15 bucks a month for 110 plugins. And which plugins are included? Probably not the ones you want. Let's see if they even have vocal writer. Sort by plugins name. Save vocal, right? I'm looking at this for the first time here. Okay, Vocal Rider is in the 110. And what about the one? And the one nods? All right now is one knob. And vocal, you know, it's irrelevant, it's irrelevant $15 a month. Or if you pay annually, it is $150 a month, which is too much. I would consider $10 A month or $99 a year for not all of them. I would not pay $150 A month a year for not everything and assure wouldn't pay $250 a year for everything. Whereas if you pay and that's annual, if you pay monthly, it's $25 a month

Dave Kropf 23:27

And then you get two months of splice for free. I mean, that's cool. Why make these two tiers. Again, it's like finding the only rake in the entire yard and managing the step on it. Completely self inflicted wounds here. Why make the two tears Why complicate things here. Just make the one make the one offer everything for $15 a month. It's super easy. Now you've created these tiers that gets complicated. It's too expensive. 150 bucks a year for not everything. It's too much. It's too much. It's not an automatic thing. And this is coming from someone who has subscription based products. The family subscription the friend subscription we're about to raise our prices but it's because I believe the value we offer is exceptionally high so I get tiered systems and all of that I get it.

Dave Kropf 24:44

But again, this is not the way we we do it. And how you roll it out is to send press releases. There are zero press releases. The last press release that that I see on their website. is from February 1 How you don't roll it out, is sending an email to your customers saying, let's see, march 26, was Sunday, sending an email to your customers on the day it all changes. You can't do that waves can't do that. You can't do that. So no warning, no heads up, no email, the press release, just Sunday, this is the way it is you're going to like it. And the ticking clock on on your, on your plugins unless you do that. So many missteps here. And so I would love to know, let me know Vocal Rider, what's my Vocal Rider options, I want to officially I want out, I want out of the one knob series as well. So if you know of a really, really good plugin, like the one knob pressure, I think it's fantastic. It's my go to sidechain. Whenever I need a sidechain compression for drums, it's just so easy. I don't want to fiddle with a bunch of little compression I can but I don't want to. And the one knob just makes it easy. That's my kind of plugin

Dave Kropf 26:32

Are you are you going to sign up for the wave subscription? I don't know if anybody who thinks this is a good idea. I don't know anybody who's like yep, this is what I want. And if you're going to do this, if you're going to roll out a subscription, offer people a choice. offer people a choice. Make them also available for sale. Now I can't begin to imagine the the back end that goes into into that. I've seen what happens when it can go sideways. See also east west, when they had their platinum, they had their cloud and then Cloud Plus and then Cloud X and all these different tiers. And it got really complicated. And if you subscribed on one level, then what they're doing is essentially giving you a gold license. And then if you upgrade, then they're given you a platinum license, which then this overwrites your gold license, but your plugins or gold plugins, it's I can't imagine the headache of navigating and keeping track of all of that.

Dave Kropf 27:41

So maybe they just you know what, screw it, we're just going to pull pull the band aid off. And this is what it is. And we are going to, to triage from the fallout on the other side of this. And this is what I think they're doing it, they're in triage mode right now. And, and I've seen a couple of other YouTubers who have spent more time with waves and I have one I think Barry Jones, who, who went off. And so I'll link to that video in the description, so you can check that out. And he made a fantastic point, which was, they're not even all that. And all those new have a plugins. They're old plugins with old UI. And if they release a new plugin, it's essentially an old plugin with maybe an updated interface and they throw a throw namebrand on top of it, it reminds me as far as that goes, it reminds me of drug manufacturers who will like release an ant acid, and then release an ant acid with aspirin and then call that a new medicine. And, you know, trademark it and patented and all of that. That's kind of what it reminds me of.

Dave Kropf 29:05

For a long time waves was the only name and town they were the biggest name in town. And now I think they are just coasting on that legacy. Meanwhile, really, I think again, really taking advantage of their customers, their customer base. And this is just not how you do it. You don't flip a switch overnight, telling your customers to get bent. This is the way it is. This is the way it's done. So are you going to do it? Are you going to sign on the waves? And if so, I'd love to hear from you. I'd love to hear and maybe this is the final nail in the coffin for me just jumping completely off the subscription train. But this feels really gross. And so I need a new I need a new vocal right pluggin I'd love to hear from you. Let me know in the comments below. I do read all of those comments and do make an effort to to respond. So I think that's really all I wanted to talk about today. I had to cover it. I couldn't not talk about what waves is done and how, again, how just hostile they seem towards their customers and doing everything finding the wrong way to do it nearly every single time let me know in the comments below. We're going to take a quick break and when we return, we're going to be checking out a a pulsing tension que from 50 to cues community member Ginny Goodspeed. But first, here are a few words from Mrs. 50 To cues Shannon Kropf To tell you all about the community.

Shannon Kropf 30:49

Hey, y'all, I'm Shannon Kropf. And I want to tell you that the 50 T cues podcast is made possible by viewers and listeners just like you, composers and producers who are looking for a better way to connect and collaborate. You see, 52 cues isn't just another website selling static pre recorded videos to a mass audience. It's a fun, vibrant and positive community that comes together online for sharing cues, getting feedback and discussing what's up in the production music industry. You'll find both personalized feedback and live interaction which are the best and fastest ways to grow your skills and earn more placements. The best part is that the 52 cues community is absolutely free. And when you're ready to take your career to the next level, we offer friends and family subscriptions which unlock weekly live streams, live interactive group feedback sessions, monthly interactive workshops and more. Head over to 50 to cues.com and sign up today. And while you're there, check out our personalized feedback videos private lessons and of course merch I can't wait to see you at 52 cues.com.

Dave Kropf 33:47

All right that was that was beneath the surface by Ginny Goodspeed. This was submitted during our week 12 weekly feedback threads we put weekly feedback threads every every week and 50 to cues and so Jenny said I watched Dave's awesome mixing and mastering workshop and some other electronic mixing tutorials and took another stab at pulsing tensor. Well thank you very much. Glad glad you got a lot out of that workshop. And I think there is a lot to love about this queue. First of all love the title titles fantastic. And the pulses are really really good. Throughout. I'm wondering, you know, since I know that you're working on on mixing, I feel I feel like first of all, we're too loud. Our peaks or peaks didn't clip over 00 I would set our peaks to no higher than minus point two. But to be safe probably want to keep those closer to minus one or so. But even the loudness by the end, we were getting into the eight integrated laughs I think we should really live between minus 12 and minus 14 laughs I notice over on the SoundCloud page that you posted here that it did seem quieter and that Because SoundCloud will adjust adjust that loudness, I think, I think it's minus 12. Over on SoundCloud, but a lot to like here as far as the pulsing goes. But it's the loudness, I think that's kind of do us. And I feel like some of the sounds have some distortion. And it's so loud that I can't tell if that is a choice, or if we're actually clipping if we're distorting.

Dave Kropf 35:35

And in general, I feel like the high ticking percussion and the cymbal swells can come down in the mix. Yeah, right there. can actually see a pop through the mix here. Yeah, this area right in here, everything from about 2k Up to three and a half K, it's just really, really aggressive. So I feel like it's a little too harsh up in there. And so I would back those down. In fact, I think you could probably could probably get away with backing down any sustained sounds, any of those effects. Anything that's not the pulse, or the melody I think can be brought down the mix

Dave Kropf 36:30

I love all the pulsing here. And I would have from an arrangement standpoint, I would have jumped out into a breakdown a phrase earlier. So I would have jumped into the breakdown right there. And yeah, cuz cuz we got into it around a minute and five, but the overall queue is only a minute 50 or so a minute 45, your button is hitting whoops, button is hitting right, right around 148 or so 147. And so yeah, I think we could get into our breakdown a little bit earlier. Speaking of breakdown, I feel like we could have gone down a little bit further, energetically, however, I wouldn't change up the rhythm, the rhythmic aspect of the pulse here. That's great edit point. So you go from 16th Note pulses to been in two and three and four. And that felt a little jarring to me, what I would have done was I would have kept the ship. But I would have maybe filtered the base. So it's like a bubble. So it's it's still cooking underneath the surface

Dave Kropf 38:00

but all those those, those dotted quarter eighth, you know, accents, I don't think I think it shifts up that rhythmic energy too much. And so we're already down shifting our energy by pulling out some textures. We don't want to change textures and change the overall rhythmic aspect of the cue though, I think that's that's a bridge too far.

Dave Kropf 38:32

And see we bring back in the 60s here, I think we probably could have brought those those aspects in and just filtered them down a little bit. I think that could have accomplished Oh, and by the way, while I'm thinking of it, let's clean up our the beginning of the queue, we've got a little bit too much dead space, we have almost a second of silence over a second of silence. And so it doesn't actually start until right here. So So yeah, I would definitely definitely bring that in. I don't I like to leave no more than 200 milliseconds of silence at the top

Dave Kropf 39:19

then there were a couple of things that felt a little mono and I don't know if it's a weird phasing thing but that little scrape felt a little MonaVie

Dave Kropf 39:35

your melody feels a little a little mono. I don't know if it needs a little bit more stereo spread. i In general, I love all the stereo work you have going on in here. I think it works really really well.

Dave Kropf 40:04

Now you ended on this note, which is probably, you know, technically tonic, but we've been spinning the entire queue with this pulse this tone. Right? So it feels more like we're this is tonic just a mode of tonic could be Dorian or whatever. But this hmm, did we ever go to that chord before?

Dave Kropf 40:34

Yeah, I think we did. But it just doesn't feel like tonic I think I would end on that no

Dave Kropf 40:52

just really depends on if you consider that Pamuk. Or if that's a core tone of your root chord. I just don't feel like this is tonic because that's not what we're hearing in our base. No, no, it's it's, it's, it's, in theory, music theory wise, it's kind of a gray area. But I would end I would end on that note. But otherwise, yeah, really, really dug this. Thank you so much for sending this along. Like I said, this was sent along during our week 12 weekly feedback thread, we do put weekly feedback threads together every week. And right now, we are looking at cues for week 13. And one of these cues I will be featuring on this upcoming episode. And so if you enjoyed that, if you found that helpful, and you would like feedback on your own cues, and head over to 50 to cues.com/coaching, where you can order your own feedback video where I do. I give you feedback on all of the aspects of your cue everything from title to mix, to master to music theory side of things to form, structure, harmony, all of that. If that's something you're interested in, head over to 50 to cues.com/coaching. And while you're there, you can also check out my one on one zoom, coaching sessions and our mastermind, which we are still enrolling for the spring 2023 mastermind seats are still available in payment plans are also available. We'd love to have you over there. So that's gonna do it for me this week. You definitely want to tune in next week, where I promise I will be rolling my interview with Josh Segal editor who lives out in LA and we're going to be talking about what editor's really, really want but that's going to do it for me once again. A huge thanks to all of the family friends and patrons who helped keep the lights on here. Thank you so much. Just know that I love and appreciate you. But yeah, I hope you had a fantastic week. 12 and I look forward to hearing all about your week 13 Because remember, friends I know that the universe has amazing plans just for you. Until next time, peace. The 52 cues podcast is copyright 2023 18 Studios All rights reserved. The music played on the podcast is copyright of their respective owners and is used with permission and for educational purposes only. For more information including joining the community and submitting your Q for consideration on the podcast, head over to fit to do cues.com

 
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